Thanks, Spreadnecks, for our COVID miseries | Mann Overboard

Bill Mann
Posted 8/26/21

Living Amidst The Boneheads: Please excuse a disabled guy’s shaky ascent onto the soapbox.

I generally keep things light here, but now it’s time we raised the rant.

I’ve had …

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Thanks, Spreadnecks, for our COVID miseries | Mann Overboard

Posted

Living Amidst The Boneheads: Please excuse a disabled guy’s shaky ascent onto the soapbox.

I generally keep things light here, but now it’s time we raised the rant.

I’ve had it with the boneheads. So have many of you. 

I speak of the clueless anti-vaxxers who have devastated hospitals, schools, the population at large, and politics. 

Author and former GOP operative Rick Wilson, cofounder of the Lincoln Project, has a perfect name for these clueless ones: Spreadnecks. 

My pal Mark Thompson invited me on his popular KGO Radio show in San Francisco the other day to talk about these MAGA-centric, maskless, unvaccinated brainiacs, given my personal experience with a pandemic.

I contracted polio in 1952 — just before a vaccine became available. I spent years with crutches and braces because there hadn’t been a vaccine. It could easily have killed me, as it did many others. The Army even flew my Dad home from the Korean War to be at my bedside. 

But I was lucky. I survived this pandemic and had a relatively normal life only after two surgeries. But 12 years ago, my polio returned — as it has for 60 percent of polio survivors. It’s called Post Polio Syndrome. Google it. It has rendered me disabled again. 

Now, we have to wear masks again because of the boneheads. These dolts should be considered pariahs because of ignorance and intransigence. They should not work in offices or schools, should not be allowed in public places without proof of vaccination, and certainly should not work in hospitals. Employers, including the state, have the legal right to fire these Typhoid Marys and Harrys. And they should. 

Why is it taking so long to completely shut these knuckle-draggers out of civilized society? They are enabling a public health disaster. Ignorance of the laws of nature is no excuse. 

A caller after my appearance told Thompson that his wife was recently hospitalized because of complications of breast cancer. The medical staff wanted to keep her a couple of days more to complete her treatment, but couldn’t. They needed her bed for — quelle surprise — the unvaccinated and clueless ones who’d contracted COVID.

Not being vaccinated isn’t about individual rights. The COVID virus doesn’t care about rights. Not being vaxxed is not a political statement. It’s an IQ test. Over 99 percent of current COVID cases are unvaxxed.

It may not be the easiest thing to say or hear, but I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for the unvaxxed who take ill.  Bad enough they’re getting deathly ill, but their obstinance and willful ignorance is also making innocent people sick, especially children. 

I’d have a battle of wits with the antivax crowd, but I never fight an unarmed opponent. 

— The Wise Y: The PT City Council did the right thing in completely turning operations of our currently closed Mountain View Pool over to the capable and experienced Peninsula YMCA to run it. The Y staff has been invaluable in helping our badly needed pool, as has capable city Public Works Director Steve King, who was handed a big job in getting and keeping the pool up and running. A big thanks to both of them. Now, YMCA, let’s get a pool supervisor in place and the pool reopened. It’s this polio guy’s only exercise. 

Aquatic Trivia: Fellow board members of the Jefferson County Aquatic Coalition smiled when I passed along this oddball fact: SWIMS reads the same upside down. Try it. 

— By Popular Reader Demand: So many of you liked the punderful entries here last time from the closing credits of NPR’s “Car Talk,” I’ve dug up a few more of them. 

Staff Sommelier: Avery Goodyear; Director of Firestone Tire Recalls: Ivana Michelin; Drug Trials Specialist: Placebo Domingo; EBay Specialist: Selma Junkoff; Fleet Manager: Oscar De La Rental; French Folk Music Historian: John T. Alouetta; Gospel Choir Director: Colin Response; Graduation Coordinators: Val and Dick Torian; Rental Property Manager: Ulysses Up; Rock and Roll Historian: Bruce Wade Hughes; Overseer of Arizona Voting Practices: Emmanuel Recount; Photographer: F. Stop Fitzgerald. 

(Columnist Bill Mann is at Newsmann9@gmail.com.) 

Comments

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Stephen Schumacher

To the Editor, the Leader,

The Leader should be ashamed for running Bill Mann's column "Thanks, Spreadnecks, for our COVID miseries". Its form is the same as WWII propaganda that similarly demonized out-groups and advocated segregating them into camps. What else can one make of "They should not work in offices or schools, should not be allowed in public places" and "Why is it taking so long to completely shut these knuckle-draggers out of civilized society?"

One factor delaying America's descent into pure bio-fascism is its Bill of Rights. Since "the COVID virus doesn't care about rights", Mann pushes to "fire these Typhoid Marys and Harrys", falsely fearing that the asymptomatic healthy are a threat to others just by existing and breathing... not caring that sick-until-proven-healthy is as tyrannical as guilty-until-proven-innocent.

Beyond the evil form of his rant are the dubious claims Mann makes to justify his agenda. He equates polio vaccines with today's barely-tested experimental mRNA shots that are already linked with 13,068 adverse-events deaths... more in half a year than all other vaccines combined during VAERS' 31-year history.

Mann complains "we have to wear masks again because of the boneheads", but the real reason has nothing to do with the unvaxxed. Instead it is CDC data "showing that vaccinated individuals infected with delta may be able to transmit the virus as easily as those who are unvaccinated" and have "measurable viral loads similar to those who are unvaccinated", which is the pretext for masks again being pushed.

Mann blames the unvaxxed for "making innocent people sick, especially children", despite pitiful vaccine ineffectiveness with antibody levels waning in 2-3 months used to justify the current push for twice-yearly booster re-vaccination. By contrast, natural immunity following CV infection is broad and enduring against all variants. Children are at minimal (not "especial") risk, the CDC reporting only 385 deaths under age 18 in 2 years, with John Hopkins finding "a mortality rate of zero among children without a pre-existing medical condition such as leukemia".

Mann continually insults the intelligence of "these dolts", baldly saying "Not being vaxxed is ... an IQ test. Over 99 percent of current COVID cases are unvaxxed." Mann fails his own test by misquoting the Surgeon General's debunked claim that "99.5% of Covid deaths [not cases] are among the unvaccinated", a made-up number counting old deaths before the vax was widely available, counting the vaxxed as unvaxxed prior to 2 weeks after their second shot, and counting vaxxed deaths using a much lower PCR Cycle Threshold than unvaxxed deaths. By contrast, England and Israel report 60% of their current deaths are vaccinated.

The overall message is to scapegoat the vaccine hesitant as subhumans who "devastated ... the population at large" so deserve discrimination and loss of livelihood Shame on the Leader for promoting such blatant inflammatory hate speech while censoring all reasoned opposing viewpoints over the past year.

Stephen Schumacher

Port Townsend

--- sources ---

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w

http://solmaker.com/public/VAERSdeaths210813.png

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/jul/vaccine-antibody-levels-start-wane-around-2-3-months

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/natural-immunity-after-covid-19-found-durable-and-robust

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf

http://solmaker.com/public/CDCdeathsAge210825.png

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-side-effects-hospitalization-kids-11626706868

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/here-we-go-again

Thursday, August 26
Hannah McFarland

Stephen Schumacher's reply to Mann's column is full of substantive information with many citations to back up the information he discusses. Kudos to Stephen Schumacher for providing sound information. Bill Mann's column has a lot of childish name calling. Not impressive. If an argument is sound one does not need to resort to name calling.

Thursday, August 26
Marge Samuelson

Really, an opinion column where no one wants to let a person give their opinion? Talk about first amendment rights being tossed in the trash. Steven Shumacher, can comment, nothing wrong with that, but let's hear from everyone. But most of all, EVERYONE WHO CAN SHOULD GET A VACCINATION NOW! Saving lives is important, don't just think of yourself!

Thursday, August 26
Evan Green

I won't bother to debate Schumacher's points as arguing with an antivaxer is akin to wrestling with a pig in a mudhole. It gets you nowhere but dirty and the pig enjoys it.

I will point out one fact from his distortions. "13,068 adverse-events deaths." Compare that with the 635,000 reported deaths from Covid. I'll take my chances with the vaccine, thank you very much.

Friday, August 27
Facts Not Fear

Thank you, Mr. Schumacher , for calling out this monstrosity of an"opinion" column. I was appalled by Mr. Mann's column and disgusted with The Leader for printing what is effectively hate speech, laden with misinformation and lies. It is a slippery slope from mocking and name-calling to advocating violence and you, Port Townsend Leader, have an ethical responsibility not to glorify or incite violence. Shame on you for running this series of schoolyard taunts by an ignorant bully.

Mr. Mann, be assured that many of us in this community and throughout the world who are questioning the demands that we give away authority over our own bodies are not "MAGA-centric"; we are liberal, progressive, and capable of free- and critical thinking. We are unafraid to ask questions, to look past the mainstream narrative of fear to the facts. Many of us are not against vaccinations, not by a long shot (pun intended), but then again, there isn't yet a true vaccination available for COVID-19; there are short-lived injections designed to ward off severe illness. There is strong evidence that these injections are in fact driving mutations, and creating their own super-spreader events by the vaccinated who carry and transmit a heavy viral load... asymptomatically. But we don't yet know, do we? It takes time to gather data. Viruses mutate constantly. This is why vaccines typically take YEARS to come to market. ALL variables are tested, rigorously. In the case of the mRNA injections, the public is being coerced, shamed, and soon forced, to be the experiment.

Mr. Schumacher has provided links to a host of articles and recent studies refuting the misinformation contained in Mr. Mann's rant, including data just released on Wednesday from Israel showing vaccinated individuals had 27 times higher risk of symptomatic COVID infection compared to those with natural immunity from prior COVID disease . Do your own due diligence as many of us are doing; Mr. Schumacher has made it easy for you. But don't take his word for it. The Wall Street Journal, Nature, Science, The Washington Post , The Guardian (UK) are among more mainstream sources that are publishing articles and op-eds questioning the propaganda churned out on the daily, and changed nearly as frequently, by those who claim to have our best interests at heart.

I will offer to those who are questioning and waiting for more reliable and complete information words taken in part from an open letter to the unvaccinated, published by a group of Canadian physicians and researchers in early August: https://ocla.ca/a-letter-to-the-unvaccinated/

"It is entirely reasonable and legitimate to say ‘no’ to insufficiently tested vaccines for which there is no reliable science. You have a right to assert guardianship of your body and to refuse medical treatments if you see fit. You are right to say ‘no’ to a violation of your dignity, your integrity and your bodily autonomy. You are right to fight for your children against their mass vaccination in school.

You are right to question whether free and informed consent is at all possible under present circumstances. Long-term effects are unknown. Transgenerational effects are unknown. Vaccine-induced deregulation of natural immunity is unknown. Potential harm is unknown as the adverse event reporting is delayed, incomplete and inconsistent...

You are inaccurately accused of being a factory for new SARS-CoV-2 variants, when in fact, according to leading scientists, your natural immune system generates immunity to multiple components of the virus. This will promote your protection against a vast range of viral variants and abrogates further spread to anyone else.

Do not be intimidated. You are showing resilience, integrity and grit. You are coming together in your communities, making plans to help one another and standing for scientific accountability and free speech, which are required for society to thrive. We are among many who stand with you."

Again, PT Leader, please think carefully about the consequences to our community by condoning such inflammatory language as displayed in Mr. Mann's column, and the misinformation contained therein. You are not a passive observer here; you have an ethical responsibility to uphold. Shame on you, Leader, and you, Mr. Mann. Your words are beneath the dignity of our community.

Friday, August 27
Marge Samuelson

Talk about disinformation! The Pfizer vaccine has been given full FDA approval. To those who think it's o.k. to put others at risk let me remind you that people are dying. A huge spike in cases caused by the Delta Variant across the country in the unvaccinated should give you pause. In an emergency you use what's available and so far these vaccines have been saving lives. You actually think the vaccines are causing the variants? Learn a little something about how viruses work, they mutate to survive. That's why we get a different flu shot every year. We have health care workers spending their time trying to save these people who could have prevented getting the virus with a simple vaccine. Mandates are to encourage people to get vaccinated and are legal under the Supreme Court ruling.

Friday, August 27
Justin Hale

Guess I wasn't the only one who thought Mann's rant was mean-spirited. Sadly Mann is not alone in his condamnation of his fellow citizens who choose to not take a vaccine. As if there isn't more than enough hate and division in this country, now we're being divided into the vaxx'd and the un-vaxx'd.

If we're going to be angry with anyone it should be directed towards those who unleashed this monster on the world, they wear white coats and work in a lab in Wuhan China.

Friday, August 27
Stephen Schumacher

[posted on behalf of Annete Huenke:]

I don’t get the impression that Bill Mann enjoys doing his own research, rather tends to defer to preferred authoritative voices. Those authorities will not be shining light on this recent study, which contains a bit of inconvenient, not-so-good news. Perhaps Mann Overboard will be tempted to peek at it, or maybe a friend will, then share it with him gently.

Oxford University study finds fully vaccinated Healthcare workers carry 251 times viral load compared to the unvaccinated

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733

Friday, August 27
Tom Camfield

I agree with Bill Mann’s evaluation of anti-vaxxing knuckle-draggers . . . the clueless sorts ”who have devastated hospitals, schools, the population at large, and politics.”

I personally don’t see a lot of difference between outright murder by other means and passing along the highly contagious delta variant of Covid-19. But the law as it exists, I guess, requires more specific malice aforethought on a person-to person basis.

Mann points out that “not being vaccinated isn’t about individual rights. The COVID virus doesn’t care about rights. Not being vaxxed is not a political statement. It’s an IQ test.” I see by the responders to Mann’s comments—one both verbose and anonymous—criticism of the inclusion of any non-

Republican politics. So much for a Free Press al a 1776 until The Leader begins sounding more like Donald Trump. That’ll be the day.

Friday, August 27
Marge Samuelson

O.K. Just-in-hale, definitive proof you can show to the CDC that that's were the virus started. Your comment doesn't help anyone, blame doesn't save any lives, vaccination does.

Friday, August 27
Justin Hale

Definitive proof would require a transparent and honest CCP, that ain't gonna happen. My research leads me to believe that we are dealing with a lab/man-made virus, which originated in a lab in Wuhan China.

In this life you get what you put up with, if China gets a pass with this, and it seems as though the world is letting them, expect more to follow.

Friday, August 27
Ed S.

Kudos to The Leader for running Mr. Mann’s brave column. The anti-vaxxers and anti-mask crowd fall into various categories: the willfully ignorant, the superstitious , and the political right wing (aka the tea baggers and Trumpbots), who misunderstand or purposely distort data. Often they declare they are “patriots,” while trampling on the rights of other Americans struggling to avoid the hideous plague. Meanwhile, their non-compliance is leading to horribly overcrowded hospitals while keeping the virus alive and well, which means, say leading scientists, it will eventually mutate into something even more deadly. Hundreds of millions have been safely vaccinated and are not keeling over in the streets. But many millions of the unvaccinated have died of the disease — and many who recovered suffer the agonies of long-haulers, something which the anti-vaxxers never mention. As for those who say they are upholding our Constitution by fighting mandatory masks and vaccines, they should remember the sorts of pundit Samuel Johnson: “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” These people need to suffer the consequences of their dangerous actions— including the loss of their jobs. The sane among us can no longer rollover for their pernicious nonsense.

Saturday, August 28
Justin Hale

"keeping the virus alive and well, which means, say leading scientists, it will eventually mutate into something even more deadly".....

Can you cite a virologist who says that viruses tend to mutate towards a more virulent variant?

Saturday, August 28
Marge Samuelson

If your really interested in whether virus's mutate towards a more virulent variant I recommend you do some reading. An excellent book is "Viruses, Plagues & History by Michael B.A. Olstone, published in 2010 by Oxford Press, Chapter 2, page 10 gives an excellent explanation "perhaps some viruses stayed within the parental host from which they evolved and displayed symbiotic or near-symbiotic relationships. But as viruses moved from one host species to another or mutated to form new genetic mixtures, some of these formerly symbiotic viruses achieved a high level of virulence." I use it as a reference book for doing my family genealogy. Over the centuries many of my ancestors suffered through viruses, plagues etc. So yes, I believe the Delta Variant is the virus's way of staying alive. That's their purpose. So get your vaccination, mask up and never underestimate what science can teach us.

Saturday, August 28
Justin Hale

"some of these formerly symbiotic viruses achieved a high level of virulence." Keyword there "some".

Viruses that kill their host do not replicate for long. the virus's prime motive is, like any other life form, to live and reproduce.

Sunday, August 29
Tom Camfield

Amazing how the mere word "science” was barely accepted as part of the English language during the Trump years.

Tuesday, August 31
Todd Hutton

I’ve heard excuses, excuses, and more excuses; rationalizations upon rationalizations, since this opinion column was published in the Port Townsend Leader. Enough is enough. If you are not vaccinated, and if you don’t have a verifiable medical or religious reason not to be, then you are now a Typhoid Mary or Harry. You are impeding upon my ability to safely travel, to go to a grocery store, to attend a concert or movie ( which I won’t unless the venue requires vaccination proof), to attend a sports game, to shop in a clothing store, to attend a festival, or any one of hundreds of activities that require human interaction.

Your supposed right to freedom is absolute nonsense. You have a moral obligation to protect those around you— your family, friends, fellow church goers, fellow teachers, fellow healthcare workers, fellow firefighters, fellow first responders, fellow police officers, fellow grocery workers and other front line workers, and the list goes on and on. The time has past for trying to rationalize with people who don’t have critical thinking skills, who don’t read juried literature, who live in a science-denial bubble. Now, because of your irrational fears, the EU may again ban Americans from European countries. Shameful! The 60+ percent of Americans who have been fully vaccinated need to assert our right to “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.” The ignorance and intransigence of the unvaccinated is impeding the majority’s right to these absolutes.

Tuesday, August 31
Todd Hutton

I failed to say, “Thank you Bill” for your courage and fortitude in writing and publishing your opinion piece. I’ve enjoyed your quirky humor immensely. In the face of human misery and devastation, you chose to take a stand. But also ended with a bit of humor from “Car Talk,” which I often enjoyed during drives to and from my old, always-needed-to-be-worked-on trawler on Lake Ontario. I’ve been a Leader reader for 15+ years, and I couldn’t be more proud of your willingness to take a risk and express a very personal and also socially compelling perspective.

Tuesday, August 31
Dage Corvish

Viruses are not 'alive,' and therefore cannot be killed. Destroyed certainly, but not killed.

They are nonliving infectious agents which can invade living cells, causing the cells to produce more viruses. The viruses are not themselves cellular, which is the base structure of all life.

That being said, the willingness to allow one's cells to be infected with pathogenic agents which can spread to one's fellow travelers causing illness and death when there is a safer alternative is quite selfish and shortsighted. The longer we take to get ahead of this, the greater the potential for more variations of the virus to find ways around our defenses. We will be in a continuous cycle of masking, shutdowns, bankruptcies, evictions, homelessness, and all the other fun features of our new normal, particularly the blame and hate. What's not to get angry about?

All this crying about 'the vaccine might do this; it might do that' is going to be much less painful than the slow death of civilization.

Wednesday, September 1
Madeline Yarbrough

Stephen Schumacher makes many claims in his letter, but the one that is most galling, is his comparison of anti-vaxxers to “demonized out groups” who were “segregated into camps”. Aside from it’s blatant and disgusting antisemitism, it’s a pathetic plea for consideration that he refuses to give to everybody else.

H are not special. H are not more knowledgable. He may have “done your research”, (oh, how I lament that this phrase now indicates a google doctorate in confirmation bias), but he's wrong.

He has turned himself inside out to demand special consideration, meanwhile giving none to others.

If he refuses the vaccine, he also needs to refuse medical care, emergency services and a hospital bed that should go to someone who needs it.

Wednesday, September 1
Forest Shomer

Disappointed, but no longer surprised at the depths to which the Leader has fallen, in continuing to publish Mann's hate-filled diatribes. This is not the Leader that I've generally enjoyed and always supported for the past 44 years as a subscriber. As others' comments rightly point out, this self-indulgent rant is not the kind of journalism that has won the Leader statewide awards under past ownerships/editorships. Or is the Leader now merely emulating NextDoor?

I'm clear now that my eye can just skip over yet another few column inches of the deteriorating Leader when I notice Mann's name come up. He could have presented his opinion in a way that acknowledges each of us as "another oneself", a.k.a. The Golden Rule. But his sense of entitlement as assured-column-inches, instead exposes his lack of consideration for thousands of his neighbors.

That same sense of entitlement extends to his grumble about the temporary closure of Mountain View Pool. The pool has a long history of temporary closures for mechanical and other reasons. We, who pay our taxes in the city, are the ones who ultimately make it possible for him to enjoy those waters. Therefore in demeaning thousands of citizens who provide him with the pool's comforts at a below-cost price, he bites the hand that feeds him. Such ingratitude.

Wednesday, September 1
Justin Hale

D.C.

Whether viruses are "living, or not living" is unsettled, I happen to believe they are, they were probably here before humans were.

Being vaccinated is no guarantee that you will not get infected and spread the virus or its mutations.

Wednesday, September 1
Dage Corvish

Oh, Rubber Chicken, you're bouncing again.

Whether you think it's settled or not is irrelevant. It's definitional.

You want guarantees, you are in the wrong universe.

You just want to fudge the numbers and act knowledgeable, then act away. It's entertaining.

But try to avoid inciting hatred against Asians.

Your racism truly shows your color.

Wednesday, September 1
Tom Camfield

I’ve been associated with The Leader in all phases since 1944 (part-time printer’s devil at 40 cents an hour)—and I can say it has risen tremendously in stature in recent years—especially under its recent ownership, publisher, editor and overall staff. Bill Mann certainly can count himself among the true journalists who have moved onto the local scene. The Leader has held up firmly in the face of the anti-Free Press faction led by the lowbrow likes of Donald Trump, and our paper is a small-town New York Times in today’s world.

Thursday, September 2
Justin Hale

D.C.

I have no hatred towards Asians, my anger is towards the employees at the Wuhan lab who didn't contain the virus that they were working on and the CCP that is covering up the incident.

Thursday, September 2
Larry Kallenberger

Bill Mann is one of the finest columnists anywhere in the country. He could write for any newspaper he wanted. Just because some people only want happy news in the Leader doesn’t mean we all do. I want strong investigative journalism and equally strong opinions. I am surprised that so many people are willing to live in a cocoon here when we have some really talented people to help us think through what is going on. If you don’t agree it is OK to say so but please can we put the pitchforks away as if we were some podunk place in the Midwest. Being in the same place doing the same thing for a long time is not necessarily a virtue yet some people think citing the number of years lived here gives them special cache to call out others for their views. Voltaire said that to become a patriot you must become an enemy of all mankind. That is true about people who think where and how they live is all that matters. We are in a big world and while some folks here don’t like Bill Mann speaking the truth he is a world class writer. If you can do better contact the Leader and we will see how your columns stack up against a brilliant yet down to earth writer. What are you so afraid of that you want to silence him? Change? I think the Leader is the best it has been in many years. If you want to be a patriot to the past way that existed in Port Townsend you become an enemy of change and of the improvement mankind can make right here. When you have to cite the number of years lived here to make a point or have credibility how is that different from every little town in every backward hollow in the US thinking that they are the best simply because they have been there a long time. I think we clearly need a new path to walk down if we want to live up to the image of a progressive small town that is open minded and welcoming to all. Pulling out the pitchforks to go after Bill Mann is a sign that we have lost our way and are settling for the past rather than the future we could have. I love small towns but not small minded ones. Let’s just live in the past is not the motto of an open minded town. Xenophobia comes in many flavors. I hope it doesn’t come here to stay. Keep Bill Mann writing the superb columns he gives us and keep our minds open to what he says. Oh, and have the courage to state your opinions using your own name like he does. If you are one of those who uses a phony name or anonymously puts people on blast you don’t deserve our attention because it is a cowardly thing to do.

Thursday, September 2
HarveyW

I would like to thank Bill Mann for being one of many guinea pigs in the real life trials of several vaccines. We have all had mixed, and corrected, and corrected corrected information regarding this virus and safe protocol.

Choose your source, choose your reality. Welcome to the future. Early on as I was shut down for 2 and a half months, I watched a Dr. TV wash his groceries. He covered about 60% of each item. I suppose some were calmed and didn't notice his half assed process. I don't think its advised any more. Depending on your source of info. Easier to set most aside for a week or so and let our little friends cease to function. Who knows what will be shown to be best next week. Depending on source of info. For some this includes vaccines. New info daily.

Perceptions of Bill Mann and his writing skills vary. Some like recycled jokes. Seems he came out with the pitch fork this time, and flushed out those who would walk this walk with him and carry lanterns. No joke.

Perceptions of the safety of the warp speed that vaccines became available in vary. Perceptions of statistics showing safety vary. Perceptions of what constitutes a knuckle dragger vary.

Perceptions of big government and big pharma vary. Daily we see FDA recalls of drugs years after being approved.

Some perceive all available vaccines are fine. Those who waited have info from some sources that perhaps one brand is better. Data will continue to be used by different folks in different ways as it evolves and is tweaked. Bill Mann with his pitch fork and lantern coming after those he does not fully understand is not an authority.

Stress packs of dogs and they begin fighting among themselves. Do dogs have knuckles? Do they bark names at each other?

Mr. Mann did call many first responders, medical personnel, and his neighbors Spreadnecks, knuckle draggers and more. He knows more than them apparently. Perhaps he should speak with some off the record and learn why they choose not to vaccinate. At least yet. They most likely do have masks that work and wear them even over their noses. You have to love the nose hangers. They represent why this is going to go on for a long time. Vaccinated or not.

For a minute lets explore vaccines and airplanes. Boeing had years to work on the 737 Max. After 2 crashes we learned of corporate culture pushing through bad decisions on hurried time lines. Now we are told all is safe.

Big pharma is corporate. Government is blown disaster management, Afghanistan, Viet Nam, add your pet government fiasco. With cover ups.

Perhaps this time everyone got it right. What would the Vegas odds be?

Some would trust the "system" of different cultures running different oversights. Some would not. I assume Mr. Mann trusts the figure in the white lab coat and would jump on the next 737 Max flight he could get. For a non "spreadneck knuckle dragger" like Mr. Mann, a white lab coat seems to render you immune to corporate culture.

For a non spreadneck knuckle dragger like Mr. Mann all the folly of big government and big pharma are on hold this time. This time alone we got it right right away. Mr. Mann has done tedious research and feels qualified to advise all. In his mind.

Mr, Mann trusts the lab coats and oversight culture under pressure to preform, and believes the trials are sufficient, as news of efficacy and leaks emerge. Choose your source of info on that.

I have no answers for anyone. Just observations. I manage my personal space at my business and when I am out as best I can. For every person who leaves after our request that a mask actually is functional, more thank us and come back repeatedly for a safely managed place to spend time, or thank us on arrival. Many medical and first responder folk in that group.

This is not the normal situation at most places I am aware of. Vaccinated nose hangers and droopy mask syndrome rule everywhere I go. Some purposeful, some just not thinking much.

I meet plenty of vaccinated "knuckle dragging spreadnecks" regularly at my business. I just checked my knuckles and no bandages are needed. Mr. Mann. Check your own.

Your impatience is understandable. Your delivery is self absorbed, likely after the ego boost of your radio talk. It may be that we are seeing National Karma. Some blindly trust "leaders". Some don't based on years of personal data. Maybe "leaders" are right this time. Maybe not. Time will tell.

No corrections or updates from Mr. Mann. He could run for City Government. Sound of crickets.

Lets listen to some Bowie, Under Pressure. No answers here, just observations. Not here for a dogfight. I stand to be corrected. Mr. Mann???????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbwn21TU4ec

Friday, September 3
Dage Corvish

I was going to read that but I could not find a spot to park.

Friday, September 3
HarveyW

Thanks for underscoring the manufactured parking problem. Think for yourself. Or not.

Friday, September 3
Vaxxed and Proud

I am vaccinated, so really don't give a shit about most of these olds here losing their damn minds over their "free-dumbs". My personal choice is to let you guys be you and natural selection will work it out, but unfortunately the moronic actions of a few affect the whole--mainly children under 12 who cannot be vaccinated just yet.

So I must respond to the ignorant post by Steve-O (Schumacher)--

Vaccinated people do not spread covid as easily OR more than the unvaccinated. Your statement is misleading at best! Also convenient how your links didn't necessarily talk about the true numbers of the vaccinated versus unvaccinated, etc. SO here are a few links with reputable DATA SPECIFIC to how Covid affects the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated- AS WELL AS a link providing updated information on current vaccinated cases VS unvaccinated cases. FYI it doesn't look good for you folx!

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/COVID19/DataDashboard (updated Sept. 2, 2021)

https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx (updated Sept. 3, 20201)

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html (updated Aug. 26, 2021)

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/unvaccinated-people-at-highest-risk-of-being-infected-by-delta-variant/

AND GTFOH with that Alex Berenson link---you really show your true intent with that one.

Finally, to anyone that by choice (this excludes medical or under age) that refuse to get the vaccine, @*&#^! you and your delicate feelings! It may be your choice, but it is also society's choice to ostracize you and make you a pariah.

Saturday, September 4
Vaxxed and Proud

Oh and GREAT opinion piece Bill Mann. We need to stop coddling the whiners and hold them accountable for their actions. Especially when they attempt to compare the choice of receiving a free vaccine to interment camps----Steve-O Schumacher

Saturday, September 4
Justin Hale

VP wrote "Vaccinated people do not spread covid as easily OR more than the unvaccinated. Your statement is misleading at best!"

S.S wrote " Instead it is CDC data "showing that vaccinated individuals infected with delta may be able to transmit the virus as easily as those who are unvaccinated" and have "measurable viral loads similar to those who are unvaccinated", which is the pretext for masks again being pushed."

CNN wrote, "(CNN)Fully vaccinated people who get a Covid-19 breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Thursday."

As I wrote in a previous comment "As if there isn't more than enough hate and division in this country, now we're being divided into the vaxx'd and the un-vaxx'd. "

Saturday, September 4
VP

JH wrote - If we're going to be angry with anyone it should be directed towards those who unleashed this monster on the world, they wear white coats and work in a lab in Wuhan China.

You have the audacity to speak of hatred?

Saturday, September 4
Justin Hale

Do you understand the difference between anger and hate?

Saturday, September 4
Marge Samuelson

There isn't enough hate in the world, we have the vaxers and the anti-vaxer's? People who get vaccinated don't want to kill anyone or make them ill unnecessarily, people who make up excuses for not getting vaccinated will spread this disease, without regret. There is no logic in their thinking. 639,000 people dead in U.S. from COVID-19, no deaths proven from vaccines. Just do the math!

Saturday, September 4
VP

JH -I understand that you are pointing fingers without proof. Inciting hatred against a group of people. Seems hateful to me!

Saturday, September 4
Here 2 help

Seems you are not proud enough to us your real name. Its ok you seem really smart. Like to know you. Think we could be besties.

BTW big sale on pitch forks and lanterns at the hardware store. Not on sale but they have this bee keeping thing that makes a good hood.

Can't wait until WE can ostracize YOU and make YOU all pariahs.

UNDER PRESSURE

Sunday, September 5
Here 2 help

Like Marge says, people who make up excuses for not getting vaccinated will spread this disease, without regret.

All careless in the same way. All no regret. Vaccinated are all careful. All good. All best. Unvaccinated are careless without regret. Repeat after me. You don't even need to think about that to know its true.

Everyone with concerns about vaccination are exactly the same. All spread disease without regret. There is no variation in these people. No one is on the fence. No one is ok. All bad. All no regret. We know.

People like Marge and me and Vaxxed know more than those pariahs ever will. They are all the same and need to be taught a lesson. God I love this. Maybe after we set up a system to deal with these people we can get moving on other groups that are all the same and bother us. You know who I mean. God its about time.

Its almost scary how brilliant we are. Right Marge? Vaxxed? Remember these people all the same. Don't care at all. All the same all the same all the same.

US good. THEM bad. This is us........UNDER PRESSUERE. Same as it ever was.

Sunday, September 5
Here 2 help

FORGOT TO CREDIT SUPREME LEADER BILL MANN. BEST WRITER EVER. DON'T THINK FORGETTING IS RELATED TO MY 9TH DOSE OF PHISER FOLLOWED BY MY 6TH DOSE OF MODERNA. YEAH , I JUMPED THE LINE. SUE ME. BEEN DRINKING HAND SANITIZER TOO. SCREW YOU SPREADNECKS AND YOU KNOW WHO ELSE. GOD I LOVE THIS. WE RULE!!!

THANKS BILL!!!! YOU MAY HAVE STARTED SOMETHING.

Sunday, September 5
Marge Samuelson

End of Conversation!

Sunday, September 5
Here 2 help

No, Marge unfortunately not the end at all. Just the beginning of this. Choose words and what you convey carefully. What did we learn here today class? Bill Mann "I’d have a battle of wits with the antivax crowd, but I never fight an unarmed opponent." Bill may be the unarmed man. Pretty quiet, Bill. Where's your wit?

Sunday, September 5
Justin Hale

M.S. wrote, " no deaths proven from vaccines. Just do the math!"

"At least 125,000 fully vaccinated Americans have tested positive for Covid and 1,400 of those have died, according to data collected by NBC News."(https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/breakthrough-covid-cases-least-125-000-fully-vaccinated-americans-have-n1275500).

Beware of absolutes Marge.

........................................

VP wrote, " Inciting hatred against a group of people.".......... Be more specific. Where have I incited hatred against a group of people?

.......................................

Sunday, September 5
VP

Under Pressure, HarveryW, Here2Help, Justin Hale whoever you claim to be.

While I've reveled in your decent into psychosis and conspiracy, I doubt we'd ever be "besties".

AND a small piece of advice, if you post comments under several pseudonyms you may want to check your verbiage. There are so many tell-tale signs within your diatribes it's amateur hour.

Monday, September 6
HarveyW

Vaxxed and ashamed to use your name, proud you are not..... Correct on some handles, not others. No shame here as with you. Just holding up the mirror for some as to where the Bill Mann mind set ends up and what types buy into the mind set you and Bill Mann represent. Some understand the satiric intent, some won't. The satiric character and you might well be "besties'. I will consider the source in processing your critique.

My comparing 737 Max problems and process to come up in warp speed with the experimental vaccines is illustrative. Systems fail, cover ups happen regularly. Go ahead and trust as you will. Each has their subjective trust of "the system". Or lack of it. Life is fluid and positions should be able to change with evolving information. In either direction.

By the way, I can be vaccinated and still know the reasons some are not yet. I can be not vaccinated and hit the point where I trust enough to partake. I can be so "UNDER PRESSURE' that I need to believe a narrative that all will be "normal" soon, and group a very diverse number of people into one mass mind as Bill Mann did, and Marge played into. Easy to do.

Best to all, no one really knows the outcome on this. Go with your gut and look at odds. Maximize as you see fit being "safe'. I do meet many vaxed folk who are extremely careless with a false sense of security and very bad habits. And unvaxxed with very good habits. And vice versa. Time will tell all. We do need to keep in mind that this is a national and international issue, not a local one alone. Gotta go get my booster now. Love ya Marge, I know you mean well.

Monday, September 6
Justin Hale

VP, I asked you a straight-up question " Where have I incited hatred against a group of people" as you claim? Your response is concern about user names, and my descent into "psychosis and conspiracy".

Monday, September 6
HarveyW

Just to clarify Justin, my read is that Vaxxed and Ashamed actually thought I was also you. As always I stand to be corrected. My read is that he tweaks the less than balanced character in my satire to be my decent into "psychosis and conspiracy". Pointing out the real life dynamics of corporate Boeing dysfunction with 737 Max possible with Big Pharma and Big Government rushing to a needed conclusion being "conspiracy". It is a factor for some choosing not to Vax right away.

I thought most all would know "Here 2 Help" was me. Satire seemed fitting format in comments to the great writer Bill Mann'x Spreadneck piece. Vaxxed and ashamed thought he broke the code.

Here is a tip for all readers. When someone has to distort what you say and can only answer the distortion, you may well have a point.

Another observation. Proud and pride being anonymous and scared to step up with real identity is like a gay pride parade with all wearing berkas to hide their shame. They don't. Anonymous pride is an oxymoron. Isn't it?

This forum should be about exploring ideas and positions. Distortions and personal attacks indicate an inability to do so. Magnified when we are all UNDER PRESSURE. Which by the way never was an anonymous handle for me. Just a reminder for some as to what is at play. Here is the link again to the song, just to clarify for those with reading comprehension issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbwn21TU4ec

Bill Mann is nowhere to be found here defending his mind set. Unless he is "Vaxxed and (not) Proud". Some of the verbiage does match up. Pariah comes to mind.

But we digress. Bill Mann painted all black and white with absolutes. Others joined him. In all matters that indicates someone with scarred knuckles, as he claims others have, being knuckle draggers.

I am done here. Meant no harm, as the Tull song said "I may make you feel but I can't make you think". I stand to be corrected, but probably will just be attacked again. Always ready for thoughtful input to enlighten me, from those capable. Vax up and get the boosters if that makes sense to you. Nothing is black and white.

Tuesday, September 7
Justin Hale

HW,

Isn't there an old saying " great minds talk about ideas, small minds talk about people". I try to observe that principle and not descend into name-calling or labeling people but sometimes I stray, as I often referred to people who hate Trump as "Trump-haters", mea culpa I'm far from perfect.

Tuesday, September 7
Dage Corvish

How totally self-aware you are not.

Wednesday, September 8
Gary Novak

Does this column sets the record for number of responses and length of responses? I see some familiar regulars. I assume most of the aliases are the same embarrassed guy. But some new voices are here, too. Good work Mr. Mann!

Sunday, September 12
Herbert T Birdfoot

I've known 6 people to get Shingles from Moderna vaccine who never had it before, I've known people who got Rona months after getting the vaccine, some even more than once. And I know someone who actually died the day after getting the vaccine, despite feeling normal and healthy the day before. Out of the 150+ people I know that actually tested positive, not a single one of them has died. NOT A SINGLE ONE. These are REAL people I actually know in REAL life, not internet life. Had a friend die in a car wreck, but was labeled as a Rona death because of his post mortem blood test. Your name calling proves you got a weak argument, kinda like saying you cannot exercise without a pool lol HINT: you are surrounded by water that is far better at social distancing than the pool. and it is free Pro Tip: Mystery Bay State Park is super shallow for a long way so the water stays warm even on sunny winter days. IF you need a ride I'll come pick you up. Once last thing.....If these anti vax folks had family members that were ACTUALLY dying FROM The Rona, do you think people would still be anti vax?

Wednesday, September 15
Dage Corvish

What a poignant anecdote.

All those years of studying science now seem . . . infructuous. One begins to wonder if keyboards should come with breathalyzer locks.

Thursday, September 16
Justin Hale

Herbert T,

My Daughter, Son-in-Law, Granddaughter all got the Covi-19 virus, they all got through it, said it was like a bad flu.

There are valid reasons IMHO for not taking the vaccine, you listed a few, I have cited a few.

My position from the start of this vaccine question has been that it's a personal choice, if you believe it's safe and the "right thing to do" then go for it. If you don't believe it's safe and not right for you then don't get it. I'm not going to shame you or force you one way or the other.

As to your question "If these anti-vax folks had family members that were ACTUALLY dying FROM The Rona, do you think people would still be anti-vax? "..... I don't know, but I'll bet if there were anti-vax family members of the person who died the day after getting vaccinated they weren't moved to the pro-vax side.

Thursday, September 16
Kathleen Cleaver

Justin Hale and Herbert-

Have you ever visited the McDonald's in PT? If so, you would've likely met Cindi Ann She was a very nice lady and often worked the drive-thru. She was also anti-vaxx like the two of you. The last time I saw her was in August. As always she was there @ the window with her mask down around her chin, smiling.

Cindi died this month from Covid. It took her in less than 6 days.

She left behind children and grand children. Who are now, thanks to Cindy's death all vaccinated.

Cindi was a kind person that touched many lives. She died due to misinformation, just like you are spreading here.

Friday, September 17
Justin Hale

I am neither anti-vax or pro-vax, I have said all along it's a personal choice, you know "my body, my choice".

Friday, September 17
Herbert T Birdfoot

Kathleen Cleaver, I didn't know her and I don't know her health issues, but I saw the column and it said she had a couple heart attacks in the last couple years. I'm not spreading any 'misinformation", I am merely paying attention to what is happening in my circles in relation to what the internet says.

Saturday, September 18