They are endangering the lives of others | Letter to the editor

Posted 9/15/21

Bill Mann is to be commended for addressing the serious subject of mask-refusers and anti-vaxxers in his usually light-hearted column. 

Sure, he has some choice, mildly derogatory names for …

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They are endangering the lives of others | Letter to the editor

Posted

Bill Mann is to be commended for addressing the serious subject of mask-refusers and anti-vaxxers in his usually light-hearted column. 

Sure, he has some choice, mildly derogatory names for these self-centered, misguided and real threats to society. 

Some people have complained about this. Would they also object to the use of unflattering names when talking about, say, mass shooters? 

People who choose not to get vaccinated or refuse to wear masks need to own up to the fact that they are endangering the lives of others, even if many of those others are fellow witless egocentrics. 

But of course it isn’t just the latter they’re putting at risk. They’re also a real threat to children, who are more susceptible to the Delta variant, but are so far not allowed to vaccinate, and even a menace to those who are already vaccinated. 

There is no right to endanger others. Public health regulations have been in effect for several centuries all over the world to put protection of the health of the community above the desires of the few. 

Speaking of mask-refuseniks and anti-vaxxers: The county commissioners should be severely censured for their very cowardly failure to require vaccination of county staff and visitors to their facilities. Aren’t they listening to their own county health officer? 

The situation is now worse than it has ever been since the pandemic started. 

Now is the time for government to take bold action, not to hide behind unsubstantiated fears of large numbers of staff quitting and conflicts with unions. Commissioners were elected to lead, which involves having a backbone to take on naysayers. 

Fred Nussbaum
PORT TOWNSEND

Comments

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HarveyW

I will paste this several places in hopes of a more rational conversation. We all live in hope. The false widespread belief that vaccinated do not get and spread Covid exactly the same as unvaccinated seems to fuel some polarization.

Symptoms may be milder and reduce hospitalizations in vaccinated is my take away. I am most threatened in my business by careless and carefree vaccinated feeling no need to be careful with masks and more. They are out and about freely mingling with others like themselves who feel safe. They have a bullet proof vest in their estimation. Many are firing virus shots in all directions. Without a care. I meet them daily.

This is not pro or anti vax. It is understood vax. Football stadiums and eateries full of vaccinated and careless will still fuel the spread in record numbers. The unvaccinated who cannot attend will be blamed. Feel free to correct what this qualified person says regarding vaccinations and spreading Covid. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jktvh6k0qys&feature=youtu.be

The false narrative that unvaccinated spread more and are the only threat is simply false. It is convenient for some who desperately want a quick fix.. When falsehoods are the cornerstone of your position, examine your own thought process, and actions.

For many it will always be simply easier to believe falsehoods and a narrative that establishes blame for spreading to a different "tribe" than the tribe of the vaccinated and super spreaders.

I stand to be thoughtfully corrected. Vaccination has no effect on spreading or contracting Covid. Work on your corner stones and build your argument from there. Do get vaccinated if that makes sense to you. Don't fall for arguments that have no foundation.

Saturday, September 18
Marge Samuelson

If everyone was vaccinated how would the virus spread?

Saturday, September 18
Dage Corvish

For in his knowing came understanding of truth.

"I must let all know the truth, thus they too will understand and be moved to park elsewhere."

Posting far and wide, whispering to strangers on the street, his message spread, verily like a virus, infecting all with the spirit of his truth.

And then all did know, and in knowing came understanding, but they did not truly understand, not like he understood, for his was the superior knowing.

Saturday, September 18
Justin Hale

H.W.

Well put.

......................

M.S., The hundreds of thousands that President Biden is letting come into the country illegally and then flying them to all corners of the country. Sort of like how the Chinese government allowed thousands to fly out of China when they knew it would spread the virus throughout the world.

...................................

D.C., Pfft!

Saturday, September 18
Dage Corvish

ooh! The racist inhale virus exhaled.

Saturday, September 18
Marge Samuelson

Once again. If everyone is vaccinated how would the virus spread? No answers because you have no answer. If everyone is vaccinated how would the virus spread?

Saturday, September 18
Justin Hale

M.S.

Millions have been vaccinated, has the rate of infections gone up or down?

Sunday, September 19
HarveyW

Like I said Dage, I always stand to be thoughtfully corrected, . You deflect. Poorly. As another once told me that ran the city into huge debt for nothing (Cherry Street) "Quickly shut up." Classic.

Marge, in my humble understanding, as the person in the link pretty simply explains, Vaccinated contract and transmit Covid just as with the flu. Covid will continue to change as with the flu virus. I stand to be thoughtfully corrected, or Dage can do his style of jab that addresses nothing and does not even hurt.

Sunday, September 19
Marge Samuelson

WASHINGTON (AP) — Will the coronavirus ever go away?

No one knows for sure. Scientists think the virus that causes COVID-19 may be with us for decades or longer, but that doesn’t mean it will keep posing the same threat.

The virus emerged in late 2019 and it’s difficult to predict how it will behave over the long term. But many experts believe it’s likely the disease will eventually ease from a crisis to a nuisance like the common cold.

That would happen as people build up immunity over time, either through infection or vaccination. Other viruses have followed a similar path.

Isn't getting vaccinated a lot less painful than getting Covid?

Sunday, September 19
Justin Hale

M.S., From what I've read the normal virus comes on strong and then mutates to a less virulent form, but keep in mind this virus that has caused this pandemic was created in a lab so who knows what it will do. One more reason why many choose to not take the vaccine.

Sunday, September 19
Marge Samuelson

The COVID-19 virus was not designed in a laboratory. The COVID-19 virus is most closely related (96% identical) to a coronavirus that was previously identified in bats. Scientists are working around the clock to determine which animal was the original host of COVID-19 and which mutations the virus obtained that enabled it to infect humans. The suggestion that the virus was created in a lab has been debunked and retracted.

https://covid19.nj.gov/index.html

Drafted: 10 March 2020.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION JUSTIN IN HALE

Monday, September 20
Justin Hale

https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/03/26/1021263/bat-covid-coronavirus-cause-origin-wuhan/

https://theconversation.com/origins-of-sars-cov-2-why-the-lab-leak-idea-is-being-considered-again-161947

Monday, September 20
Marge Samuelson

No one is going to believe anything you say, you have lost all credibility.

Monday, September 20
HarveyW

Marge,

Stop and take a breath. You don't speak for everyone. Nor do I. Nor does Justin.

Logic and emotion are not the same.

You speak for you. Others may or may not agree.

Claiming to know that "no one" will believe or look at a point of view defines only you.

This is us. UNDER PRESSURE

Tuesday, September 21
Marge Samuelson

You have got to be kidding! Calling a lie out is the right thing to do.

Tuesday, September 21
Justin Hale

"No one is going to believe anything you say, you have lost all credibility.".....

You cited a source that bolsters your opinion, I cited two sources that bolster mine, welcome to the world of pick your reality. As Joe Biden said "we choose truth over facts"

As far as I've read the question as to the source of the SARS-CoVid2 virus is unsettled.

I believe it came from the WIV.....

Supposedly the virus came from a Horseshoe bat through an intermediary animal at the Hunan Fishmarket in Wuhan. And yet "More than a year after covid-19 began, no food animal has been identified as a reservoir for the pandemic virus. That’s despite efforts by China to test tens of thousands of animals, including pigs, goats, and geese, according to Liang Wannian, who leads the Chinese side of the research team."

https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/03/26/1021263/bat-covid-coronavirus-cause-origin-wuhan/

Out of all of the "wet markets" in China, the only one that supposedly was the source of the SARS-CoV-2 happens to be in the same city that has a BSL4 lab doing research on the SARS virus.

"Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/

The WIV was opened in 2017 doing research on the SARS virus, two years later the SARS-CoV2 was spreading out of China...coincidence?

I'm not going to say that the CCP created a bio-weapon,,,who would believe anyone would ? Who would believe anyone would gas millions of innocents? Who would believe that multiple millions of innocents would be killed by their Communist leaders? Who would believe a government would knowingly allow thousands to fly out of a country that was experiencing a viral epidemic?

Believe what you want to believe Marge.

Tuesday, September 21
Tom Camfield

Seems there’s too much blather about who/what caused the coronavirus pandemic and too little acceptance about what we must do to get rid of it.

Tuesday, September 21
Mike Murray

In reply to Harvey, from what I've read, in those who have been vaccinated, the virus is cleared from the nasal passages, etc., much faster than in the unvaccinated. So, yes, we are contagious when we contract COVID but for a shorter time. We should mask up and practice critical distancing, especially since we are less likely to know from symptoms when we might be contagious. Every bit helps in controlling the spread.

Tuesday, September 21
Dorothy Galloway

Also key is that while the vaccine doesn't completely stop transmission (and most of us who are vaccinated acknowledge this) it does seem to be effective in keeping people out of the hospital. For those of us who have loved ones not able to get needed treatment because of hospital beds being taken up by Covid patients who could have prevented serious illness, I'm wondering why this is okay with those choosing not to get vaccinated.

Tuesday, September 21
Justin Hale

Your right Tom, take the vaccine or don't take the vaccine.

Accept that some have their reasons for not taking the vaccine.

Accept that the "who/what" reason for this virus came out of China, if they are not held accountable odds are this is not the last pandemic we will see.

Tuesday, September 21
DUSTIN WILLIS

This is shameful behavior on anyone who starts name calling. Polio or not, Mr. Mann, other people have made sacrifices you have no idea about. You chose to put yours out there as reason why everyone should do this. I started reading that article and felt empathy until I realized what was going on. Its hateful to use force, compulsion, or shaming others to do something they either don't want to or don't have enough information about. Free country and your choice to do so. It doesn't really match up with good core values. I am sorry your missing those. Some of us haven't had a choice our whole lives. Its a choice and should always remain so. What is it that makes us so free? Choice? Who knows what's happening with the virus? Not you and not I and mostly not anyone in this town, Doctors or not. Until recently I never had a choice. As a child a mother gets her children vaccinated. As a military member your given every shot under the sun. You have no say. What would you say to those veterans that did this? Some did it their whole career. Maybe 20 years of shots and maybe four years. Veterans did this, they did this for the country, and they did this for you. I hear a lot of "we are all in this together". Who really believes that? Where you during our struggles Mr. Mann.

Also, Mr. Nussbaum, who determines the light heartedness of a joke? You? Mr. Mann? Beats me but I will say this. What would you consider a light hearted joke when it came to race? What about handicap people? What about disabilities? You leave yourself open to your own bigotry and hypocrisy. By calling people you know nothing about a real threat to society is over stepping some bounds and an uninformed statement. Got any facts to back that up? I wont assume either way. Just asking the question.

Just asking the question. Can any of us ask a question without getting shut down because some want more information on a drug that's currently still in an experimental status? It doesn't look that way. I will continue to ask questions.

On top of this, to the citizens who attack those who are unvaxxed should at the very least think about this! This town has been committed to recent movements to promote equality, racial understanding, and being good to each other. Does anyone see that happening? Go ahead an answer, Ill wait.

What I do see, my personal observation, is segregation. Before you start wanting to call me names, just think. There are some minority groups who are hesitant to follow requests and even mandates from their governments whether it be federal, state, or local.

So, if I understand this correct, those minorities stand a chance on a large on a big scale to not be included in many events. its already happening. and those that point fingers and blame at others are adding fuel to it.

I hope I have that I know will fall short is for people to have a little more understanding and compassion. Some of us show neither. A lot of people are also saying do it out of love and kindness for one another. You cant have love with out hate. That's proven here in a lot of the comments.

You all have your right to a voice. I have mine. I have made my choice. You have made yours or you will. I fought for your ability to keep those. My brothers and sisters fought for your ability to say all these things. Im happy to have done so. When will you fight for those that don't have a voice. When will you stand up and this or that is wrong? Don't make the problem worse.

I'd accept a friendly conversation with any of yall, but doubt I would receive the same in all cases.

Much love. Hope yall figure this out. Stop being hateful.

Wednesday, September 22
Marge Samuelson

It's been a year and 9 months since this pandemic started. How much time do people need to decide to get vaccinated and put a stop to it. This isn't hate, this is logic.

Wednesday, September 22
Justin Hale

It isn't hate, it isn't logic, it's intolerance.

Wednesday, September 22
Justin Hale

It isn't hate, it isn't logic, it's intolerance.

Wednesday, September 22
DUSTIN WILLIS

It is intolerance LouDonna. Not logic at all. Thank you.

Thursday, September 23
Marge Samuelson

Intolerance is unwilling to accept others opinions.

Logic 1 : a proper or reasonable way of thinking about something : sound reasoning.

2 : a science that deals with the rules and processes used in sound thinking and reasoning.

Millions of people have died from Covid, very few or none have died from getting vaccinated.

Logically, getting the vaccine is what you should do to prevent your illness or the death of others around you. Exceptions to getting the vaccine happen, and should be discussed with a physician. The people who can't have the vaccine will be protected if those of us who can, get vaccinated.

Thursday, September 23
DUSTIN WILLIS

Marge,

When is it over? Please use your definition of logic as I am guessing you have an answer for us.

As for getting the shot so we cant pass it to others, well it seems everyone can pass it to each other.

Less than a million have died in our Country. Not millions.

Thursday, September 23
Marge Samuelson

I did not say in the U.S. World wide there have been 4.55 million deaths. The highest number is the U.S. with 696,867.

Thursday, September 23
Dustin Willis

I might have the math wrong here Marge, but, there are approximately 7,500,000,000. Approximately four and a half million have died of this disease? Did all die of just the disease? Math in the world we were living in just two years ago would show you that these deaths, while tragic and disheartening, are less than .1%. That’s not 1 %, that’s less than .1%. If someone has Breyer statistics then by all means please present em.

Friday, September 24
Dage Corvish

Happy to have fought for those without a voice? Hypocritical much?

Of the 2000 Americans who died of Covid today, how many were intubated, unable to say goodbye to their families as they drowned in their hospital beds? How many brothers and sisters, children, grandchildren, parents will not hear their voices tomorrow, or ever again. Well, they don't add up to much. Even with the 2000 yesterday and the day before and the 2000 tomorrow, they don't add up to much. Their voices are not worth preserving. We've got 330,000,000 more Americans. It's tragic, but eh, it's not much.

Tell that to their families, friends, and neighbors because even adding them into the equation, there's not many.

Tell that to the health care workers, stressed out and leaving their profession, being unable to deal with losing one or two, or a dozen, or a hundred. Who will be there for you if your turn comes? Who will give voice to all those people? Well, heck, there's not very many of them.

Friday, September 24
Marge Samuelson

Vital statistics data provide the most complete assessment of annual mortality burden and contribute key measurements of the direct and indirect mortality burden during a public health pandemic. While mortality statistics have historically been produced annually, the COVID-19 pandemic introduced a pressing need for the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) National Vital Statistics System (NVSS) to rapidly release reliable provisional mortality data. Provisional estimates indicate a 17.7% increase in the number of deaths in 2020 (the increase in the age-adjusted rate was 15.9%) compared with 2019, with increases in many leading causes of death.1 The provisional leading cause-of-death rankings for 2020 indicate that

COVID-19 was the third leading cause of death in the US behind heart disease and cancer.1

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

You can't get heart disease from another person, you can't get Cancer from another person, but you can get Covid from another person.

Friday, September 24
Justin Hale

D.G & M.S.

The fact that this China virus has killed millions worldwide and thousands here in the US is certainly a tragedy, but does that mean that a citizen does not have the right to make a conscientious decision to not take the vaccine? If so where does that lead?. If the government outlawed abortion, as it once did, will you be OK with that?. If the government said that too many people have died due to alcohol and the citizens, for the sake of their health and others are no longer allowed to use alcohol, as they once did, are you OK with that?

Be careful what you ask for.

Saturday, September 25
Marge Samuelson

Bottom Line: Covid-19 has killed people and their deaths could have been avoided with a simple vaccination.

We make laws in this country, the government is not forcibly making anyone get the Covid vaccination.

People who choose not to get the vaccine should not be surprised that those who have do not want them near them or their loved ones. Self protection.

Saturday, September 25
Dage Corvish

Rubber Chicken, the racist inhale virus spews the same nonsense once again.

Sunday, September 26
Justin Hale

M.S. You don't know who has been vaccinated and who hasn't, if you are so concerned stay home. Also, it seems that those who are vaccinated could be spreaders, definitely stay home!

Sunday, September 26
Marge Samuelson

The people not vaccinated should stay home. Those who have done the right thing should not be punished for doing what is right.

Sometimes you just don't bother with logic do you?

Monday, September 27
Justin Hale

Logic? I don't see much logic in any of this CoVid mess. If an unvaccinated person is not infected, wears a mask where required, practices safe distancing why should they stay home while the vaccinated person who has not been tested weekly goes around possibly spreading the virus? Splain that to me.

You want to talk about the "right thing", wouldn't the right thing be for all vaccinated people to be required to have a weekly test to be sure they are virus-free? otherwise, who knows if they are spreaders or not?

There is no logic to any of this k-rap.

Monday, September 27
Marge Samuelson

Tell that to the millions of people who have been vaccinated. There is logic in getting vaccinated. Not getting vaccinated if you can is not logical. You really believe the stuff you spout Just In Hale or are you just trying to make things worse?

Monday, September 27
Dage Corvish

Unvaccinated are about 5 times more likely to become infected than vaccinated and thus have more opportunity to spread the virus, knowingly or unknowingly.

Unvaccinated are about 29 times more likely than vaccinated to wind up in hospital with severe case, thus are also making up a larger percentage of the 2000 dead per day right now and jamming up the healthcare system.

In either case, someone around you may be infected, or you may be infected without symptoms. Consider it a real threat. Wear your mask. Keep your distance. Ride your bicycle.

Tuesday, September 28
Justin Hale

M.S. Maybe you know something I don't know but I've been hearing that even vaccinated people can be spreaders. Don't know for sure unless you are tested, right?

As I've stated from the first, I don't think I have the right to force others to get or not get the vaccine, and I sure as hel don't believe that the government has that right.

Tuesday, September 28
Missing Link

Dage? This from article in the link below. Supported by real science.

"No matter that even the CDC says the vaccinated spread Covid as much or more than the unvaxxed. Or that the estimated 80-100 million Covid-recovered Americans who are unvaccinated have far more robust and durable protection against future infection than the vaxxed".

https://www.porttownsendfreepress.com/2021/09/27/the-leader-promotes-hate-speech-censors-thoughtful-community-voices/

Tuesday, September 28

No, Vaccinated People Are Not ‘Just as Likely’ to Spread the Coronavirus as Unvaccinated People

This has become a common refrain among the cautious—and it’s wrong.

By Craig Spencer Atlantic magazine

"Despite concern about waning immunity, vaccines provide the best protection against infection. And if someone isn’t infected, they can’t spread the coronavirus. It’s truly that simple. Additionally, for those instances of a vaccinated person getting a breakthrough case, yes, they can be as infectious as an unvaccinated person. But they are likely contagious for a shorter period of time when compared with the unvaccinated, and they may harbor less infectious virus overall." This is a long article but well worth reading.

Good Choice of name, I thing we can tell what's missing.

Tuesday, September 28
Dage Corvish

PTFP and real science? Not exactly an associative combination.

Tuesday, September 28