The fragility of our democracy is exposed | Letter to the editor

Posted 11/18/20

Honorable and decent Republicans need to step forward and speak out against the fascism that has infected their party. Our democratic institutions need to be protected and honored or they will vanish …

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The fragility of our democracy is exposed | Letter to the editor

Posted

Honorable and decent Republicans need to step forward and speak out against the fascism that has infected their party. Our democratic institutions need to be protected and honored or they will vanish like dust in the wind.

Having a pathological liar and narcissistic demagogue as our president for four years has exposed the fragility of American democracy.

It is up to all Americans to reflect and elect people who will defend our democratic ideals and conservatives need to stop being complicit in the destruction of our country’s founding principles.

Stand up for the country and stop bowing to authoritarian power.

The GOP has become a cesspool of lies, conspiracy theories and fundamentalist Christian religion. It’s a shameful embarrassment.

It’s way past time to restore some integrity to conservatism or all Americans will pay a very steep price.

Luke Poeschl
PORT TOWNSEND

Comments

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Justin Hale

Thomas Jefferson once said, "I will prefer free press and no government rather than government without free press"..... That assumes that the Free press tells the truth. After watching the way the press has treated President Trump for four years I fear the biased, agenda-driven Fourth Estate much more than one single man.

Thursday, November 19
Marge samuelson

Full Quote:

“The people are the only censors of their governors: and even their errors will tend to keep these to the true principles of their institution. To punish these errors too severely would be to suppress the only safeguard of the public liberty. The way to prevent these irregular interposition of the people is to give them full information of their affairs thro’ the channel of the public papers, & to contrive that those papers should penetrate the whole mass of the people. The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers & be capable of reading them.” Thomas Jefferson

Jefferson warns [Edward] Carrington that all governments, even the new American government of which they themselves were members, unless checked by a knowledgeable citizenry, would inevitably become wolves. This was the eve of the French Revolution. (sound familiar)

Thursday, November 19
HarveyW Colatteral Damage

A great quote Marge. Do you understand it? This is not a donkey or elephant issue. You Marge have been censored in this very paper. I have been. Dozens of voices were deleted from comments leaving no comments at all on two Leader stories during the takeover of the campus at Fort Worden by the FWPDA in 2012. Stay with me here Marge. If you get uncomfortable, keep thinking. You can do it. You would say you are not part of mindless tribalism and groupthink. I would say the evidence points in another direction, as you support a paper that has strayed, if not with this manifestation of editors and publishers, then a previous one with much to gain from altering history.

"The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right;" You opinion Marge and dozens of other folks who saw that what was occurring in 2012 serves a privileged few, with the property of all of the people of the State of Washington, has been eliminated from history. You don't know where you are headed if you don't know who is setting the course and how they operate.

You quoted Marge "The way to prevent these irregular interposition of the people is to give them full information of their affairs thro’ the channel of the public papers, & to contrive that those papers should penetrate the whole mass of the people."

You never came back on this "information" subject in comments on the story link below this paragraph. Tom Camfield also bailed on the discussion. Both of you can quote and support the image you have of this paper, and Jefferson. Both are history buffs. Both of you fail the independent thinker test. I ask you in comments here to keep digging into your set ideas.

https://www.ptleader.com/stories/gov-inslee-orders-ramped-up-restrictions-on-public-gatherings-businesses-as-covid-19-outbreak,72189?

In todays press we have the ability, at least on the surface, to talk about points of view presented to us. That is part of the free press in these times and in 2012.

You quoted Marge "But I should mean that every man should receive those papers & be capable of reading them.” Thomas Jefferson. Did he in your mind have in mind public input in the electronic version of the Free Press?

Propaganda allows no discussion. The fact that the 80 or so comments were deleted in 2 separate stories testify to the fact that some saw them as a treat. They should be all the more interesting to readers. Free speech is a threat to "your" local paper.

Current ownership has made no effort to restore the comments that predicted "glamping" where affordable family camping should be. Those comments pointed out that affordable housing options were removed from the FWPDA charter. Those comments showed the MOU with Centrum was not followed and a very faulty plan was hatched that excluded and did not include the majority of people, as the MOU required. The public was not listened to during a pre determined taking of We The People's property, by an elite bunch of locals who mismanaged to what seems to be a criminal degree, what is a monument to our military and We The People. For private gain.

Will you Marge and Tom and all who make up what I would call the Status Quo here allow a reset now with the same players, by the same State Parks that was not doing its job? Probably so. The concerns deleted from 2012 are as relevant and even more so with what we have seen over the last 7 or 8 years by the elite FWPDA.

All men and women may be created equal Marge. It is up to all of us to be sure those are not empty words by a slave owner. That history too is not really spoken of.

Current--- https://www.ptleader.com/stories/fort-worden-pda-faces-house-of-cards-financial-crisis,72087?

2012--- https://www.ptleader.com/stories/fort-worden-forum-draws-a-crowd-full-of-questions,49740

2012-- https://www.ptleader.com/stories/frustration-at-fort-worden-forum-where-are-the-details,49449

You Marge are on this list of silenced voices. Removed from history.

Franchesca Keep Knowles

Alan Frank

Scott Wilson (Leader owner and editor on PDA Board)

Davis Steelquist

David Thielk

Donald Penn

Tom Thiersch

Scott Wilson again

David Thielk again

Alan Frank again

Terry McCullough

Craig Durgan

Mike Murray

Alan Frank again

Harvey Windle

Scott Wilson again

Keith Harper

Richard Hefley

Harvey Windle again

Tony Polizzi

Richard Hefley again

Tony Polizzi again

Mike Murray again

Harvey Windle again

Davis Steelquist again

Harvey Windle again

Scott Wilson again

Richard Hefley again

Harvey Windle again

Alan Frank again

William Wolcott

Harvey Windle again

And silenced voices from the other story, you are there too Marge. What would Jefferson say? Would you understand it? Please respond Marge. Don't be so easy. The State needs to figure out what to do with the current non qualified and corrupted FWPDA. Demand return of the Park to State Control, the FWPDA has clearly defaulted and betrayed us all from the start. Deleted thoughtful comments show what many saw coming and what is now. An executive director hired by the shadow City of PT FWPDA that was fired by the same city for ethics violations and then went to the Maritime Center and mis managed that according to deleted comments. What evidence has been destroyed with 20 year City Manager of PT in control of the FWPDA now?

Who at the Leader had access and motivation? Marge???? Marge??? Anybody???

Email here for word docs of the 2 stories with the missing comments. harvey@forestgems.com A very good history lesson that applies to what is happening right now. No donkeys or elephants. Just corruption.

More silenced voices and concerns shown to be valid with the passing of time from the second 2012 Leader story. People get the government they deserve. And the disrespect from it.

Harvey Windle

Howard Briggs

Allen Frank (past city council)

Craig Durgan

Scott Wilson (FWPDA spokesman and owner of the Leader at that time)

Harvey Windle again

Richard Hefley

Scott Wilson again

Doug Lamy

Francesca Keep Knowles

Tom Shute

Mike Murray

Harvey Windle again

Alan Frank again

Harvey Windle again

Patrick Moore

Richard Hefley again

Tom Shute again

Harvey Windle

Mike Murray

Alan Frank again

Craig Durgan

Mike Murray again

Alan Frank again

David Conklin

Mike Murray again

Craig Durgan again

Francesca Keep Knowles again

Tom Shute again

David Timmons (currently doing damage control as temp FWPDA Director after being PT City Manager)

Allen Frank again

Allen Frank again

David Conklin again

Allen Frank again

Marge Samuelson

Alan Frank again

Francesca Keep Knowles again

David Thielk

Alan Frank again

Chris King

Francesca Keep Knowles again

Richard Hefley again

Marge Samuelson again

Forest Shomer

Rod Hodlick

Terri McCullough

Doug Lamy

Allen Frank again

Harvey Windle again

Stet Palmer

Allen Frank again

Marge Samuelson again

Friday, November 20
Marge Samuelson

You didn't comment on the last sentence, "it was on the eve of the French Revolution." I was trying to put the quote in context of what was happening at the time Jefferson said it. That's the problem with cherry picking from a quote, the history is lost.

Why do you think I live in Jefferson County? I grew up off and on in this county and when I was a teenager decided this was where I wanted to spend the rest of my life. A beautiful small town, Olympic Mountains, lakes, rivers, the whole back to nature things.

The Port Townsend Leader has had its ups and downs over the years. (1889-2020) There has been a small column in the newspaper for many years that most people probably miss called "Corrections" which when people contact the paper that their information is incorrect the Leader acknowledges that.

When you tell me to think about what you have said, I can either 'think fast' or 'think slow.' I will give your comment some thought over the next few weeks and get back to you. Meanwhile we need to keep masking up and distancing. In states where it isn't mandated by the Governor people are dying, they don't have to follow the governors rules, they can think for themselves and wear the mask, distance, and all the other precautions. Sometimes people have to take charge of there responsibilities to others.

Friday, November 20
HarveyW Colatteral Damage

Thanks for your reply Marge. A correction from me, you were not in the first set of deleted comments. You are several times in the second list. Send me an email harvey@forestgems.com to get all the comments. See how they relate to what transpired and what will surely continue without some guidance from We The People. Take your time. A thoughtful response is better than the silence from many. Thanks for speaking up in 2012. History should remember all points of view.

By the way, the ones who call others snowflakes seem to be snowflakes. Definition--- A hypersensitive, irrational person who can't stand to have their world views challenged, or be offended in any perceived or even slightest of ways; they will have any number of emotional reactions: impuning character and/or motives, blocking on social media, shouting, interrupting, threatening, assaulting, etc. They often live in an echo chamber of their own beliefs and surround themselves exclusively with people and opinions that agree with their own. This term is most often use to describe people left-leaning people, but can be applied both left and right wing people.

I told that snowflake that I respectfully disagree and had some questions, and she started screaming that I was a nazi. (Snowflake)

Friday, November 20
HarveyW Colatteral Damage

..…...and Marge, regarding the French Revolution, seems the powerful were totally detached from the people. Let them eat cake is now let them go glamping.

https://www.porttownsendfreepress.com/2020/11/14/fort-worden-glamping-a-soggy-mess/

Friday, November 20
HarveyW Colatteral Damage

Marge and all.... consider this info just out this morning. Similar to what I have been saying. The State is not doing its job. No Donkeys or Elephants. Just the public interest. Just malfeasance.

https://www.porttownsendfreepress.com/2020/11/20/fort-wordens-promised-financial-oversight-never-happened/

Friday, November 20
Justin Hale

Marge, my point remains the same. No reasonable person would call today's MSM "truthful", or unbiased. I'm reminded of another quote, this one attributed to Winston Churchill, "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." Today that applies to the MSM from which the average voter gets its information, garbage in, garbage out.

Friday, November 20
HarveyW Colatteral Damage

Here is a non biased observation. MSN says things like Trump tweets removed or blocked due to false claims about Covid treatments. MSN should report using non biased language, unless it is an editorial and labeled as such. Not decide true and false. Substitute false with unproven. Lots is unproven on all sides. When news media and information platforms decide right and wrong and censor based on their bias, the free press is no longer free. Some still say this election was called by the press. "Baseless claims and challenges" will be shown or not shown with time. An observation. No party affiliation. A good topic to explore. Its the old "they came for whoever and I said nothing. Then they came for me". Good to get lots of sources and consider the source and motivation. Locally I think the Leader could improve a bit. No coverage at all on this......and more.

https://www.porttownsendfreepress.com/2020/10/07/who-is-john-mauro-port-townsends-city-manager/

Friday, November 20
Marge Samuelson

My favorite Churchill quote is

"Lady Astor: ‘If I were your wife I would put poison in your coffee.’

Churchill: ‘Nancy, if I were your husband I would drink it"

Got any more out of context quotes you want to share?

actual quote: A fierce battle was raging in a railway carriage between a male and a female. He was smoking where smoking was strictly prohibited. She objected, on principle and because she loathed the ‘beastly weed’. There was no lack of ammunition, and the attack threatened to last through the whole journey, till the woman ever hoping to have the last word, shrieked: ‘If you were my husband I would put poison in your coffee.’ ‘And’, replied the man, ‘if you were my wife I would gladly drink it.’ With this cruel and victorious shot he left the carriage, feeling he had won the day. (Graves 6 Jan 1900, 7)

If your going to use a quote please use the entire quote, and give credit to those who said it.

Sunday, November 22
Justin Hale

H.C.D.

I listen almost exclusively to NPR, habit I guess, I used to be a supporter, no longer, in fact after their treatment of Trump I would de-fund them. How many times since the election have they said Trump "falsely claims"? that's an opinion, not news. How many times have they said that Trump is refusing to concede the election when the electoral college hasn't even voted yet?

Sunday, November 22
Justin Hale

M.S.

"If you're going to use a quote please use the entire quote, and give credit to those who said it. "..... Actually according to this site (https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/08/27/drink-it/) the actual author of that quote seems to be debatable.

Are you saying that the Churchill quote I cited is not from Churchill?

Sunday, November 22
HarveyW Collateral Damage

An un named source said they saw Justin and Marge together. You get the point. No one can make you think for yourself. For many, its easy to do the thinking for them. Fully programmable units exist on both sides. Too bad we have to order "full meal deals" in voting. I didn't want the cookies, or the toy, or whatever. I actually like this place's fries and that places burgers. The soda pop is bad for you no matter from who.

5 days ago
HarveyW Colatteral Damage

Quotes?????????? Here is a relevant one regarding deleted Leader comments from 2012

Orwell---The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their own history.

And The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth

Threats to freedom of speech, writing and action, though often trivial in isolation, are cumulative in their effect and, unless checked, lead to a general disrespect for the rights of the citizen.

In a time of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations.

4 days ago